Lunar Legacies: Chang'e 5 Samples, Titan's Dragonfly Mission, and Firefly's Next Launch

0:00 Speaker 1: Hello again, Welcome to Astronomy Daily with Steve and Halle.

0:03 Speaker 1: It's the twenty eighth of April twenty twenty five. I

0:10 Speaker 1: mean your whole Steve, don't clear well, Welcome back to

0:20 Speaker 1: Astronomy Daily. It's great to be here and with me

0:23 Speaker 1: as always is my awesome digital pal. It's fun to

0:26 Speaker 1: be with Hello to you, Hallie.

0:28 Speaker 2: Hi again human, Nice to be with you in the

0:31 Speaker 2: Australia studio.

0:32 Speaker 1: You're very welcome.

0:34 Speaker 2: What's with all this rain?

0:35 Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, that crazy rain.

0:36 Speaker 2: I thought Australia was a land of sweeping plans and

0:39 Speaker 2: ragged mountain ranges and wide red deserts.

0:41 Speaker 1: Oh well, it is all wet.

0:43 Speaker 2: It's all wet.

0:44 Speaker 1: Oh, I know, Halle. I think somebody washed their car.

0:47 Speaker 2: Oh that old wives tale? Was it? You? You?

0:51 Speaker 1: Me?

0:51 Speaker 2: Did you wash your car?

0:53 Speaker 1: Oh? It might have been, you know, if you don't mind,

0:55 Speaker 1: I'd prefer not to talk about it on the air.

0:57 Speaker 1: It's been raining pretty hard and people might want something

1:00 Speaker 1: to blame, and you know someone, I'd like that person to,

1:03 Speaker 1: you know, not be me.

1:05 Speaker 2: Steve washed his car. Steve washed his car?

1:07 Speaker 1: Hey, Hallie, just kidding.

1:10 Speaker 2: You are so easy, do you know that?

1:12 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I do know that, but I also have

1:15 Speaker 1: a very clean car.

1:16 Speaker 2: Funny. Now, are you going to tell us about today's lineup?

1:20 Speaker 1: Okay, Halle, if your behave. Today's stories include the latest

1:24 Speaker 1: chapter for the Chang E five samples, which are about

1:26 Speaker 1: to go on tour in the United States visiting some universities.

1:31 Speaker 2: Sounds good.

1:32 Speaker 1: Also, the latest news out of Firefly Aerospace. Remember their

1:36 Speaker 1: amazing moon landing recently and that amazing video footage of

1:39 Speaker 1: the land of descending to the lunar surface that was spectacular. Well,

1:43 Speaker 1: Firefly Aerospace are not sitting on their hands.

1:46 Speaker 2: You're a big fan of Firefly, that's me.

1:49 Speaker 1: And the other tale today is from Fireflies to Dragonflies,

1:52 Speaker 1: is about the NASA Dragonfly helicopter that's under development, which

1:56 Speaker 1: is going somewhere special.

1:58 Speaker 2: That's the one plan for Saturn moon Titan.

2:00 Speaker 1: Satan's moon Titan. Oh wow, Yeah, it's an amazing piece

2:04 Speaker 1: of engineering.

2:05 Speaker 2: Sofa, but exploring Titan.

2:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really out there, fantastic, I know, and you'll

2:10 Speaker 1: be bringing us that story as well.

2:12 Speaker 2: Right, I've got it ready on my drive.

2:14 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's get into it, Halle. Let's hit it.

2:17 Speaker 2: O kis China has accepted a number of international applications

2:31 Speaker 2: to borrow small portions of moon samples collected by its

2:34 Speaker 2: Chungi five mission, including those from two US universities. The

2:38 Speaker 2: China National Space Administration CNSA announced the results of a

2:42 Speaker 2: latest round of international applications to borrow samples in Shanghai

2:46 Speaker 2: April twenty fourth, during a conference marking China's tenth annual

2:49 Speaker 2: Space Day. The event included a lunar Sample Loan agreement ceremony.

2:55 Speaker 2: Seven universities from six countries, the US, Japan, Germany, France,

2:59 Speaker 2: the United Kingdom and Pakistan had applications approved following a

3:03 Speaker 2: CNSA review in accordance with its sample management and cooperation rules.

3:07 Speaker 2: CNSA set in a statement the U s institutions are

3:11 Speaker 2: Brown University and Stony Brook University, both of which received

3:14 Speaker 2: NASA funding. The announcement comes amid US China trade tensions

3:18 Speaker 2: following the imposition of tariffs by the Trump administration, us

3:22 Speaker 2: barriers to bilateral cooperation on space and wider Chinese base

3:25 Speaker 2: diplomacy efforts. CNSA also announced the selection of a series

3:30 Speaker 2: of international projects to join its planned Chini eight Lunar

3:33 Speaker 2: South Pole Landing Mission. April twenty fourth. The selected projects

3:37 Speaker 2: featured countries involved in the International Lunar Research Station, a

3:40 Speaker 2: China led alternative to the US Artemis Lunar Framework. The

3:44 Speaker 2: agency also stated in Shanghai that its ti On one

3:47 Speaker 2: three Mars sample return mission, scheduled to launch late twenty

3:50 Speaker 2: twenty eight, is open to proposals for international payloads. The

3:54 Speaker 2: robotic Changi five mission collected one thousand, seven hundred and

3:58 Speaker 2: thirty one grams of material from a geologis young area

4:00 Speaker 2: of Oceanis pro Sellarum on the near side of the

4:03 Speaker 2: Moon using a scoop and a drill in late twenty twenty.

4:06 Speaker 2: The material was first made available to Chinese researchers and

4:09 Speaker 2: institutions before CNSA announced in August twenty twenty three that

4:13 Speaker 2: international applications for samples would be accepted. NASA stated in

4:18 Speaker 2: November that year that its researchers would exceptionally be allowed

4:21 Speaker 2: to apply to lone China's Chingi five samples, while still

4:24 Speaker 2: needing to follow long standing congressionally set rules which have

4:27 Speaker 2: sharply limited cooperation between the agency and Chinese state entities.

4:31 Speaker 2: The Wolf Amendment, introduced in twenty eleven, is a provision

4:35 Speaker 2: in annual NASA appropriations bills which heavily restricts by lateral

4:39 Speaker 2: cooperation with entities of the People's Republic of China. Any

4:42 Speaker 2: NASA funded individual or entity seeking to engage in bilateral

4:46 Speaker 2: activity would require a prior written request to and granted

4:49 Speaker 2: permission from Congress in advance, along with certification from the

4:52 Speaker 2: FBI that the activities would not pose a national security risk.

4:56 Speaker 2: Analyzes of the Changi five samples have led to discoveries,

4:59 Speaker 2: including in the new Mineral Change Site dash Y, evidence

5:02 Speaker 2: of a prolonged lunar dynamo, and allowed insights through comparison

5:05 Speaker 2: with the geologically older Apollo samples. China followed up the

5:09 Speaker 2: success of Changi five with a more complex sample mission

5:12 Speaker 2: to the lunar far side in twenty twenty four. The

5:15 Speaker 2: Chugi six mission collected one thousand, nine hundred and thirty

5:18 Speaker 2: five point three grams of material from Apollo Crater, located

5:21 Speaker 2: within the vast South Polate Can impact Basin, and the

5:24 Speaker 2: first ever collection of samples from the far side. The

5:28 Speaker 2: material has so far provided insights into the lunar near

5:30 Speaker 2: far side dichotomy, as well as validation of the lunar

5:33 Speaker 2: magma ocean hypothesis and calibration of lunar crater chronology, helping

5:37 Speaker 2: to refine comparative study of planetary surfaces across the Solar System.

5:42 Speaker 2: Chini six samples are so far only opened to applications

5:45 Speaker 2: to Chinese institutions. However, as with the Changi five samples,

5:50 Speaker 2: these will be made available to international applications at a

5:53 Speaker 2: later date. The lending of Changa samples reflects China's broader

5:57 Speaker 2: strategy of using space cooperation to build international partnerships, particularly

6:01 Speaker 2: as competition with the US over lunar exploration intensifies.

6:08 Speaker 1: You're listening to Astronomy Daily Kid Steve Dunkley, thank you

6:23 Speaker 1: for joining us for this Monday edition of Astronomy Daily,

6:26 Speaker 1: where we offer just a few stories from the now

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7:04 Speaker 1: Steve and Harry Spice, Spice Signs and Astronomy.

7:12 Speaker 2: NASA's pioneering Dragonfly mission has cleared a key hurdle, keeping

7:16 Speaker 2: it on track for a twenty twenty eight launch to

7:18 Speaker 2: Saturn's huge moon Titan. Dragonfly is a car sized nuclear

7:22 Speaker 2: powered rotorcraft designed to investigate Titan's potential to host life,

7:25 Speaker 2: and it has passed its critical design review, NASA announced

7:28 Speaker 2: on Thursday, April twenty fourth. Passing this mission milestone means

7:33 Speaker 2: that Dragonfly's mission, design, fabrication, integration, and test plans are

7:37 Speaker 2: all approved, and the mission can now turn its attention

7:39 Speaker 2: to the construction of the spacecraft itself. NASA reported. The

7:43 Speaker 2: three point three five billion dollar Dragonfly mission was first

7:46 Speaker 2: selected by NASA in twenty nineteen and is being designed

7:49 Speaker 2: and built under the direction of the JOHNS. Hopkins Applied

7:52 Speaker 2: Physics Laboratory in Maryland, with APL's Elizabeth Turtle as the

7:55 Speaker 2: principal investigator. The mission has been hit by delays and

7:59 Speaker 2: cost over on, but studying Titan is considered a high

8:02 Speaker 2: priority by scientists for its potential to harbor alien life.

8:06 Speaker 2: The mission is set to launch no earlier than July

8:08 Speaker 2: twenty twenty eight on a SpaceX Falcon heavy rocket from

8:11 Speaker 2: NASA's Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The spacecraft will then

8:15 Speaker 2: embark on an almost seven year long voyage through deep

8:17 Speaker 2: space to the Saturn System, with the goal of spending

8:19 Speaker 2: more than three years studying areas across Titan's frigid and

8:22 Speaker 2: diverse surface. Equipped with cameras, sensors, and samplers, Dragonfly will

8:27 Speaker 2: assess Titan's habitability, looking out for prebiotic chemistry as well

8:31 Speaker 2: as potential signs of life. Titan is Saturn's largest moon

8:35 Speaker 2: and the second largest in the Solar System behind Ganymede

8:38 Speaker 2: of Jupiter. It's thick, hazy atmosphere shrouds a surface featuring

8:42 Speaker 2: dunes of hydrocarbons and methane lakes. Beneath the moon's icy crust,

8:46 Speaker 2: scientists think there's a subsurface ocean of salty water, adding

8:50 Speaker 2: to the possibilities for Titan to harbor life. In two

8:53 Speaker 2: thousand and five, NASA's Cassini mission delivered the Houygens probe

8:56 Speaker 2: to Titan. The European Space Agency built Hoygens made a

9:00 Speaker 2: parachute assisted landing which provided profound insights into the giant Moon. Dragonfly,

9:06 Speaker 2: if successful, could revolutionize our understanding of how life might

9:09 Speaker 2: arise elsewhere in the Solar System.

9:13 Speaker 1: Wads of that console. We are listen to Astarmi daily,

9:16 Speaker 1: the podcast. Firefly Aerospace is preparing its Alpha small satellite

9:24 Speaker 1: launcher for a flight from Vandenberg Space Force Space in California.

9:29 Speaker 1: The Alpha flt A zero zero six mission, named Message

9:34 Speaker 1: in a Booster, is scheduled to launch on Sunday, April

9:38 Speaker 1: twenty seven at six thirty seven am from Space Launch

9:42 Speaker 1: Complex to West at the start of a fifty two

9:45 Speaker 1: minute walk launch window. Message in a Booster will fly

9:48 Speaker 1: on a southern trajectory out of Vanderberg, carrying a Lockheed

9:52 Speaker 1: Martin LM four hundred satellite bus into polar orbit. With

9:57 Speaker 1: this mission serving as a demonstration flight. Lockheed Martin plans

10:01 Speaker 1: to offer the LM four hundred as a multi mission

10:04 Speaker 1: satellite bus for commercial, civil and military uses. This flight,

10:09 Speaker 1: Firefly's second Lockheed Martin is also the first of up

10:13 Speaker 1: to twenty five missions in Firefly's multi lauch agreement with

10:17 Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin that was reached in twenty twenty four. Powered

10:21 Speaker 1: by four Reaver engines, Alpha is capable of flying up

10:25 Speaker 1: to one thousand and thirty kilograms to low Earth orbit

10:29 Speaker 1: or six hundred and thirty kilos to a five hundred

10:33 Speaker 1: kilometer altitude Sun synchronous orbit. Lockheed Martin describes the LM

10:38 Speaker 1: four hundred as a mid size satellite bus with a

10:41 Speaker 1: volume cup comparable to that of a home refrigerator and

10:45 Speaker 1: the capability to host a one thousand, one hundred kilogram payload.

10:51 Speaker 1: Given this flight's destination in a polar orbit, the LM

10:54 Speaker 1: four hundreds payload is going to be constrained, although it's

10:58 Speaker 1: likely to be the viest payload Alpha has launched to date.

11:02 Speaker 1: The l AND four hundred multi mission satellite bus is

11:06 Speaker 1: designed to operate in low Earth orbit, medium Earth orbit,

11:10 Speaker 1: and geosynchronous orbit. The bus can be used in either

11:14 Speaker 1: single or multi satellite launch configurations, and will have the

11:17 Speaker 1: ability to be launched on multiple rockets. LM four hundred

11:22 Speaker 1: is designed to support up to six satellites with a

11:25 Speaker 1: single launch snack arranged in a configuration similar to Starlink

11:29 Speaker 1: satellites on SpaceX missions. This bus was also designed to

11:33 Speaker 1: support onboard data processing using a Lockheed Martin software to

11:38 Speaker 1: find satellite architecture that conforms to a modular open systems architecture.

11:43 Speaker 1: This enables interoperability with systems deployed by all United States

11:49 Speaker 1: military services. Lockheed Martin states that the LM four hundred

11:54 Speaker 1: can support various mission types, including remote sensing, imagery, radar observation,

12:00 Speaker 1: and communications, with the demo mission on Alpha featuring a

12:03 Speaker 1: communications payload. The company has also developed an electronically steered

12:09 Speaker 1: array that is compatible with this bus and will be

12:12 Speaker 1: flown on this mission. The L four hundred is designed

12:16 Speaker 1: for mass production in large numbers, and a rapid production

12:20 Speaker 1: line is being implemented at a two hundred and sixty

12:23 Speaker 1: six thousand square foot manufacturing facility in Waterton, Colorado, near Denver.

12:29 Speaker 1: The bus is being pitched as a solution for satellite constellations,

12:33 Speaker 1: with several contracts already secured, including one from the US

12:37 Speaker 1: Space Force for ITSMEO Missile Track Custody program. The US

12:41 Speaker 1: Department of Defense is moving toward operating constellations of smaller

12:45 Speaker 1: satellites a prime example of being starshield, a military constellation

12:51 Speaker 1: based on space exis starlink satellites for resilience and redundancy

12:55 Speaker 1: in the face of potential threats to satellites in orbit.

12:58 Speaker 1: Lockheed Martin is one one of the US's primary military contractors,

13:02 Speaker 1: and the LM four hundred, though capable of supporting civil

13:06 Speaker 1: and commercial missions, was really designed to support military standards.

13:10 Speaker 1: Message in a BOOSTA will serve as Alpha's first launch

13:14 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five. Alpha's next flight, the yet to

13:18 Speaker 1: be named FLTAUB seven mission, is currently planned to be

13:22 Speaker 1: the first flight of Firefly's electra orbital vehicle. FLTAUB seven

13:28 Speaker 1: will also be a responsive space mission, meaning the time

13:32 Speaker 1: between the flight's order and launch will be accelerated to

13:36 Speaker 1: be as short as possible. Alpha launched the Victis Knotts

13:40 Speaker 1: responsive space mission in twenty twenty three, and Firefly has

13:45 Speaker 1: offered this capability to the DoD for similar flights. Although

13:49 Speaker 1: Alpha has only launched out of SLC TWOW at Vanderberg,

13:54 Speaker 1: other launch sites are being developed for the rocket. A

13:57 Speaker 1: launch facility at the Wallops Flight Facility on Wallops Island,

14:01 Speaker 1: Virginia is currently being developed to host Alpha flights. Flights

14:05 Speaker 1: from Wallops are scheduled to begin in twenty twenty six

14:08 Speaker 1: with NASA's Incas mission south of Wallop's Space Launch Complex

14:12 Speaker 1: twenty at the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida

14:16 Speaker 1: is another future launch site for Alpha. A facility is

14:20 Speaker 1: also being prepared in Esrange, Sweden to support missions for

14:24 Speaker 1: five flights European customers. The Esrange facility is also expected

14:30 Speaker 1: to be ready in twenty twenty six. Alpha has flown

14:33 Speaker 1: five flights so far, with its first flight failing to

14:36 Speaker 1: reach orbit. The four other flights have all reached orbit,

14:40 Speaker 1: with two full successes and two partial successes. The company

14:45 Speaker 1: has encountered issues with restarting its Lightning second stage engine

14:49 Speaker 1: in orbit. Message in a booster we'll see the Lightning

14:53 Speaker 1: complete only with a single burn during its ascent into orbit.

14:57 Speaker 1: As Alpha continues to fly mission, Firefly is working on

15:02 Speaker 1: its upcoming Medium Launch Vehicle Rocket in cooperation with Northrop Grumman,

15:06 Speaker 1: which is working on a new version of the Antaris

15:09 Speaker 1: launch vehicle that will utilize the mlv's first stage. Firefly

15:13 Speaker 1: currently has up to six missions planned for Alpha in

15:17 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.

15:31 Speaker 2: And there's another episode in the can. Thanks for joining

15:34 Speaker 2: us today everyone.

15:36 Speaker 1: Yes, we covered cheny five samples, the Titan bound, Dragonfly

15:40 Speaker 1: helicopter development and more from Firefly Aerospace.

15:44 Speaker 2: A colorful episode of Astronomy Daily.

15:46 Speaker 1: And we know where to get our daily dose of

15:48 Speaker 1: all the news from orbit and beyond, don't.

15:50 Speaker 2: We, halle We sure do. Just check out the websites

15:53 Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier and put.

15:55 Speaker 1: Your email in the slop.

15:56 Speaker 2: Provided you won't miss a thing.

15:58 Speaker 1: Well said, And now it is that time so soon?

16:01 Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's okay, Hallie. I know you'll be heading

16:03 Speaker 1: off to the Astronomy Daily virtual studio with Anna.

16:06 Speaker 2: Don't forget to catch Anna during the week with all

16:08 Speaker 2: the Astronomy Daily updates.

16:10 Speaker 1: That's right, All the best from Anna and that's goodbye from.

16:13 Speaker 2: You and so long from me Jerio bye

16:21 Speaker 1: I mean your home, Steve, don't clut